I was able to interview John Grady in mid-2022, and below is the transcription of our interview. I’ve always said the reason I started trading the US treasury products and also using Jigsaw Daytradr was because of John Grady. His style of trading completely spoke to me, and years later I haven’t looked back.
If you’d like to listen to the interview, you can see it on YouTube here: Canadian Futures Trader Interview With John Grady
Canadian Futures Trader:
Everyone, today’s video, I am more than excited to bring to you guys. I had the privilege of interviewing John Grady. Now, if you’re not familiar with John Grady, I will say upfront, I attribute basically all my success and what I’ve learned over the years in futures trading to John and kind of the content that he has put out there. He is an order flow scalper, he trades the treasuries, he’s a Jigsaw user. If any of this sounds familiar, it’s because I really have mimicked John’s playbook over the years, obviously adapted it a little bit to my own style and whatnot. But really I think you’ll even hear in the interview just in things that John said might seem familiar to things that I might have said in other videos, and it’s really because I’m mimicking him and have learned pretty much everything that I know when it comes to order flow and working with the treasuries to John. So, again, I was more than excited to hear back from him and for him to agree to let me interview him. I will mention, I’ll put a few links down below. So first of all, John’s been interviewed a few places in the years. This interview is over five years old that you’re looking at here on the screen. It was with Chat with Traders, which is a very large podcast. If you’re interested in listening to that one, I think it’s still a very relevant interview though, because he talks about order flow and scalping all of that. So if it’s of interest to you, be sure to listen to that interview as well. I’ll also put a link to his YouTube channel. Now, again, the content is several years old at this point, but if you’re interested, again, in order flow, scalping, depth of market, still very relevant. None of that has really changed. It really is evergreen content. And in the interview, we do talk a little bit about just what John’s been up to over the last several years and what his plans are going forward as well, and I think you’ll want to hear those. And lastly, I’ll also put a link down below to his website. It’s no BS Day Trading, it’s his company. He started this a long time ago as well, really to help traders and teach the things that he knew. So I can say myself, I’ve taken his basic and intermediate courses, really affordable guys. I mean, the basic course is $85. So they are very much focused though on order flow and scalping using a depth of market. So if that’s of interest to you, I mean, this is where I got my start, and that’s what I always tell people. Where did I get my start? John Grady is definitely the top of my list. So, all of that aside, guys, I do want to apologize up front. The audio quality on this interview isn’t top notch. There was just not the best connection, I guess, between us. So there’s a few clicks and clacks through the interview. John is currently on vacation. He was generous enough to take time out of his day, so I certainly wasn’t going to pass out the opportunity to do so, even if the connection wasn’t at its best. So guys, all of that aside, again, super excited about this one. Even if you aren’t interested in treasuries and you’re not interested in order flow, we do talk a lot just about trading in general and a lot of his tips and information he would pass on to newer traders, and I think it’s really valuable. So guys, enough of me talking. Let’s get to my interview with John Grady.
Canadian Futures Trader:
Everyone, today I have the honor, I have the great John Grady, where I learned my craft as a treasury trader and Jigsaw user. And we get to talk to John today. So we’re going to ask him some questions about himself as a trader, some trading related questions and then a little bit about his website and what he offers there. So first things first, John Grady, thank you so much for being here.
John Grady:
Thank you for having me. I appreciate it.
Canadian Futures Trader:
Since most of my audience, some are very familiar with you, but the ones that are not want to cover a few things about your background. So just bring us back. When did you very first start trading Futures?
John Grady:
Sure. I’ll try to give you the condensed version. I am a kid from the eighties who basically became enamored with the markets as a result of the movie Wall Street and it was a big thing back then. Pretty much through my teenage years, I did a lot of reading on it, opened one or two futures accounts when I was legally allowed to, and lost a little bit of money and closed them. And then I managed to get a job at an equities prop firm when I was in my early twenties. It wasn’t very well funded and so they hired like 20 people, and truthfully, within five months they closed the whole thing down. They weren’t really committed to the project, but I did learn some stuff there watching a couple of guys that traded quite a bit of money. And then I managed to get another job at a prop firm in Chicago. It was a futures trading firm in Chicago and we had an office on the Michigan Avenue. It was all electronic. I didn’t know some floor traders, but I never traded on the floor. And it was during a time period when a lot of the volume was starting to shift from floor trading to the screen trading. So it really was a benefit that I got that job instead of a floor trading job, really in retrospect. And that was the first time that I saw (at the time we traded on TTs, Xtrader). So the first time I really saw ladder, a futures ladder, and same thing, there were a couple of guys that were trading some size already. And so when I first started, I was still somewhat caught up with technical analysis and only making a couple trades a day. And one of these guys was making like 50 trades a day. So I kind of started to listen and watch what these guys were doing, and then it all just sort of clicked. So yeah, I traded there for a couple years, ended up leaving both, just didn’t really want to be at that firm anymore, and also I’m from the south so I couldn’t stand the weather in Chicago, and I’ve been on my own ever since. I started my education company a while back, just with the intention of helping people understand some of the basics and it sort of developed into what it is today where I run some classes and whatnot. So I do actually have a background in the industry, so at least when people listen, they know that I’ve traded for firms and I know what I’m talking about when it comes to that stuff.
Canadian Futures Trader:
Just upfront also, I’ll mention to everyone watching the video or listening in, there’ll be links down below to John’s site and to his YouTube channel, and we’re going to talk about both those things a little bit more later on here today. But first, I really want to focus a lot more on the trading aspects. Let’s tap John’s knowledge while we have him. So in the past, you mentioned TT and then I know you moved into using Jigsaw, which I personally use. Do you still currently use Jigsaw and or do you use anything else in conjunction with it?
John Grady:
I do. No, I just use Jigsaw. I like it. Peter Davies, the guy that owns it, he contacted me a long time ago. The short of it is those inside columns, which show the prints that are hitting the offer of the bid, I saw that feature, that feature wasn’t available on any other ladder platform, and I immediately saw the benefits of it, particularly with treasury trading because they’re pretty liquid product, so I know it was also much cheaper and just as efficient. So yeah, I still use Jigsaw for the future trading, and that’s all I use really. You know, I don’t really watch charts much at all. I’ll bring them up just to see what happened overnight very briefly and then I just load up the Jigsaw depth of market platform and watch the price action.
Canadian Futures Trader:
I think people will know immediately that I basically stolen that page out of your playbook. Same thing, I’ll look at a chart just to see what happened, and then I focus really on igsaw to trade. And so you already mentioned the treasuries. I’m obviously very familiar with your work and your craft, but is the treasury still your main area? Do you venture into any other products or just stick to the treasuries?
John Grady:
I trade a lot of stocks and ETFs now too when the stock market opens. Yeah, so pre 9:30, I still think treasuries are one of the best products to trade because they’re in full swing during the 8:30 AM Eastern number releases. So when the employment data breaks or GDP or retail sales or whatever at 8:30, they already have the liquidity going. You can trade the stock index features too, but they’re pretty erratic. So the treasury futures are really good early morning, and then sometimes they continue to be good like that first hour of the stock market open. But when stocks went to no commission trading, it really provides a very big edge to scalpers, right? So you can just fire off trades all day and try it. I’m a little more selective about treasuries. I still will take a lot of trades some days, but I won’t just hit the same price three times and see if it goes, and if it doesn’t go scratch out necessarily, you know? Because you kind of get eaten up with the exchange fees. With the stocks, there are some times when you can fire off 10 trades and it doesn’t hardly cost you anything in fees. So, yeah, that’s kind of my game now for the last two years, I’d say.
Canadian Futures Trader:
You know, my audience knows that we’ve already talked a little bit about this before we sort of started up the camera or the audio. So I really learned my style of trading and everything, and Jigsaw as well, from watching your older videos, and question you’re often asked, and some of my followers asked, is that you John Grady have not put up any YouTube content recently. Can you just address that? Do you have any plans to? Why, what do you think?
John Grady:
Sure, sure. Basically, as I mentioned to you, it’s tough sometimes to find a new way to say the same thing. So you know what? I’ll put this out there. If you want to ask your listeners or if you yourself have something in particular topic that you might be interested in, just email it to me or email me a short list, because basically that’s what I’m looking for. Just topics. I’ve covered the basics and I’ve covered blowing up accounts, and I’ve covered sort of some of the basics of price actions. So if there’s something that maybe quite a few people would be very interested in, I’d be happy to make a new YouTube video sometime later in the year, probably in the fall, I would say.
Canadian Futures Trader:
Yeah, that’s very gracious of you. And you probably just opened your email box to many people who will be emailingyou with ideas, and I’ll be one of them.
John Grady:
That’s fine. I read all of my emails personally so it’s fine. I don’t mind reading.
Canadian Futures Trader:
Perfect. Well, that’s exciting to hear then. And I hear what you’re saying. It is hard to say the same thing over and over sometimes and find a way to do it that’s different when there really is nothing different to it. Another thing I’ve kind of borrowed from you is I oftentimes talk about context, and context is, I don’t want to say it’s your favorite word, but it’s word listening to all your interviews, you talk about quite a bit. And just my own interactions with newer traders primarily, it seems like people really want a magic formula of when A and B happen, do C. And that just doesn’t really work. So can you talk about context and just how people should be thinking of that a bit more?
John Grady:
Yes. And funny that that’s where you start. So I just answered an email right before I logged on to speak with you, and this is a great example, analogy, whatever. One of my customers contacted me and said last week, had a great week, made money, four days out of five days, and this week, he has been struggling. And particularly today, he was watching the market kind of go one way and even though it was hitting some size on the bids at the treasuries or opposite like stocks that would’ve been on the size on the offer, but it didn’t stop the market. And so my response was that it’s because of context. And you’re right, I do say context 500 times in my material or more. But this is why. So for example, Monday morning, there was a lot of chop. And if there’s a situation where you’re buying, let’s say you go along and you just can’t seem to get paid, and the market maybe just chops and you get out, and so you’re like, all right, well, it’s not going high, maybe it’s going to go lower and you short, and then maybe it goes down two ticks, and then it comes back on your entry again, right? And so you’re like, man, this is not going anywhere. And so within usually 10 or 15 minutes, you can figure out whether it’s likely that there’s going to be follow through eventually on a move, or whether it just appears to be really choppy and market makers and the treasury and the bigger institutions and firms are just kind of hitting back and forth, right? So if they’re just hitting back and forth in the morning and there doesn’t ever seem to be follow through, like it gets to the high and you’re long and you’re waiting and you’re waiting and you’re waiting and it just won’t go, that’s not a good sign. Whereas if you think it’s going for highs and you get long and it just goes right through them, and then a bunch of stop orders get set off, and it just dominoes, let’s say like a 10 year maybe runs, it ticks higher very easily or something like that, that’s good action. This is why context is so important. As a trader, you’re trying to figure out: are you going to get paid fairly easily on good moves or not, and then kind of how accurate is it? So if a person logs on and they make three or four trades and none of them are winners, maybe it’s like two losses, two scratches, or maybe two losses, one win and one scratch, and the market price is exactly where it was when you turned on your screen an hour ago, that’s not a good sign because it’s just you can’t get paid no matter which way you go. Whereas if you log on and first trade is a win, second trade is a win, maybe third trade is a small loss, fourth trade is a win, and there’s follow through, well, that’s good activity and those are the days when you want to keep pressing as long as the action is behaving in that manner. So, for newer traders, and I know that you know this, but I’ll just say it here, this isn’t a job where you get a daily paycheck or a weekly paycheck, and that’s why it’s all about context. So professionals, the people that trade a decent amount of size, on their good days, they just keep the pedal to the metal, as I say, if you’re in a cart race car, and they just keep hitting and hitting, and those are days where they might make 2000 or 3000 or 5,000, or in the case of some huge traders who are making much more than that. And then maybe the next week, the action’s not going to like that and so what they’re trying to do is just avoid losing money. It becomes more about preservation of capital. So maybe one week, they go on a run and they make 10,000, and the next week, they log on Monday, and they lose 500, 600, and they’re like I can’t make any money, and they turn the screen off. And then Tuesday, they come back and they’re break even at 10:00 AM or 11:00 AM, can’t make any money, they turn their screen off. So they’re just trying to preserve that capital till the next couple of days. They come along where they get good activity. So I’m not trying to digress there, but that’s why I say contexts all the time because it really is, the two things you have to have to make money are capital, obviously to risk, and volatility, but you need volatility that’s conducive to getting high probability reads. So it’s one thing to have volatility on a crazy day maybe where you see the ES is only 5×5 on the bid offer. It’s so thin that you can’t really get a read on it. It’s going to get whacked around. So that’s not good volatility. But you do need some volatility where some size is moving, and if you’re trading the 10 year and they go for a new high or a breakout, you want to see them go 4, 5, 6, fairly easily and that’s what you need. Because if it only breaks five by a tick or two, and then it comes right back into the range and then sits there for 30 minutes, you can’t make any money. So you want to try to recognize that as soon as possible on those days and cut your losses or take a small win or whatever and come back the next day.
Canadian Futures Trader:
Great advice for people. The one thing I see a lot of people doing is they just want to trade their heart. And I was guilty of this too, my first year. I wanted to trade my heart out. I wanted to trade the evening session, the morning, the afternoon, as much as I could trade, I wanted to trade. Reality is you learn over time, hopefully, that there’s better times to trade, and not even just within the day, there’s just better days to trade than not. So you heard it here, not first guys, but you heard it here from a legend so take his advice. Speaking of volatility, it kind of actually leads very well into my next question. So big news release days, CPI, FOMC, what’s your game plan? Do you just avoid it like the plague or do you just watch and see what happens? Maybe there’s something to have after. Do you have a game plan, it just depends? Let us know.
John Grady:
So FOMC, in my opinion, should be skipped, and the reason being the day before when they’re having the meeting, Tuesday and then Wednesday, they have the second meeting and then they release whether they’re going to raise or lower a hold. And the reason being, most people who trade at the firms are waiting for that 2:00 PM announcement or whenever it comes out. And you typically, I mean, occasionally, you’ll see a little bit of activity early morning on a FOMC day, but usually you don’t. If you were to track it throughout the year, every meeting you would know probably one day out of the four would be maybe some movement early. So you don’t get good volatility usually on the day before and the day of. And then when the release comes out, it’s just stupid chaotic, usually. And it’s in the afternoon. So the thing about it is if you are sitting there waiting all day, and then you fire off some trades in the afternoon and you’re wrong, you’re going to get whacked and then you’re not going to get your money back. So here’s why that’s very important. On employment day, it’s called Non-Farm Fridays, so non-farm payrolls, the data number is released at 8:30. Usually, there’s more liquidity that comes back in very quickly so you can sometimes get some reads. But even if you get hit for a little bit, maybe your first two trades aren’t successful, there typically tends to be enough good action after that between 8:45 and 10:30 AM on those days that you can still have good action and you can probably get your money back, I mean it depends, but get your money back plus maybe some more. So for the 8:30 numbers, no, I tell people you want to be there for that because it’s not a guarantee that you’re going to get great activity, but usually when the numbers are released, it’s a little too hectic in that first minute or two. But then when the liquidity comes back in, sometimes you get some really great movements. You get some huge runs sometimes after a number. So definitely non-Farm Friday, CPI, retail sales, charitable goods, consumer sentiment, which comes out at 10:00 AM, same thing. You can get some good action off that sometimes. So yeah, you want to be there at 8:30, but overall, I would say FOMC days are not good days for most people, and certainly not for new traders. You can end up losing a month worth of profits in 15 minutes if you don’t know what you’re doing.
Canadian Futures Trader:
I’m curious your thoughts on this, and I don’t know that I’ve heard you cover it before, maybe I have, but in terms of algo’s trading now, so I myself trade primarily the Ultra Bond and sometimes the 30 year. I know you do more like ten year and around that kind of scope. But so for me, when I’m watching the Ultra Bond, I feel like it’s somewhat obvious when the algos are there playing. See a hundred lots pop up, then disappear and pop up, disappear. Do they mess around in the 10 years as well? And is it just harder to see because it’s like a lot thicker order book, or do the algos stick to thinner products too because they can push them around a little bit more?
John Grady:
No, they do it across the board. So yeah, you don’t notice it as much necessarily in the 10 year because maybe it’s going from 1500 contracts a bid to 1100 contracts bid. It’s like sterile. They’re adding subtracting 400 real fast, but it doesn’t seem like much versus like what you said. Yeah, they spoof up 120 contracts in the Ultra Bond and then suddenly that’s gone and there’s only 15 contracts there. Yeah, so they’re playing across the board and all the treasury products so when that’s happening, sometimes it gives you some information, but often especially if it’s not that busy, it’s just temporary little blips. For example, if they spoof up a hundred and then it pulls, it doesn’t mean the Ultra Bond’s only going to drop six ticks. You know that. So it’s kind of more like if you’re seeing too much of that spoofing, it probably means it’s going to be quite choppy. But it does and that gives you information like maybe I want to maybe stay out at the market right now until I see some actual volume trading. Even if it’s going back and forth, you still want to see the volume trading. So if the hundred shows the hundred trades, then you know you got some players there. And I trade 30 year too, sometimes in the Ultra Bond occasionally. Yeah. Just, with newer traders, I just steer them towards a 10 year because there is more liquidity, so it depends on a person’s personality, but with a 10 year in general, people tend to get whipsawed less in the beginning. They’re like, all right, I need to take the two-tick loss here or whatever. Obviously, I’m on the wrong side. Or a three-tick loss. Whereas with the Ultra Bond, they’re buying the new high and suddenly the Ultra drops six tick, and they sell it and then it goes back to new highs and they lose another five ticks. Now they’re down 11 ticks and the Ultra Bond, they would’ve only maybe been down three tick in the 10 year. So that’s kind of why I point them towards the 10 year first. But nope, no issues with trading 30 year. I mean, obviously they’re great. 30 year and Ultra Bond are great when they run.
Canadian Futures Trader:
One thing that I often get feedback from, because I don’t push the treasuries, but I tell people this is what I trade and this is why I trade them. Usually the criticism is they move too slow. And look at the Ultra Bond, I think too what people don’t realize is the per tick amount on an Ultra Bond is 31, 25. It’s not five bucks, it’s big dollar short. This is more just in the size, not really a question, but I guess yeah, it’s just go for a few ticks, but with a bigger per tick value and just scalp. That way, it just seems a lot more, I don’t know. For me, it works much better.
John Grady:
Yeah, I agree and I talk about it on the material. So first off, you have what I call the tick to commission ratio. So you have a pretty low cost with treasuries relative to if you were trading stock index futures or grains or something like that. So you can trade treasuries for under two bucks a turn, really, and at 31,25 a tick, basically, it means you have to make about one tick per 14 trades, let’s say, to cover costs versus some other products. You don’t get that same ratio. And I do get that too, obviously. Oh, they’re too slow sometimes. Yes, but that’s not always a bad thing. Sometimes that slowness is what allows you to make more accurate reads and to get what I call the free look. So sometimes, you get long in the 10 year and the 10 year moves two ticks in your favor and it’s not too fast worst case in that scenario, if you want, if it’s slow, you can move your stop to break even, and so you basically have now a free look at seeing whether the market continues to go. Whereas with a faster market, whether it’s EFs or Nasdaq or gold, you get in a trade and it’s eight or six ticks in your favor, you can still bring it up to break even, but it’s moved so much faster that you have to give it more room to bounce around often to figure out whether or not you’re right. So obviously, I’m a big proponent of treasury futures.
Canadian Futures Trader:
Actually, an additional question just came to mind just thinking about that because the other day, I did a video, I was talking about my stats. So I use Journal Linux, which is a Jigsaw Trading product. I’m heavy on stats, I’ll track them probably excessively. Do you do anything like that? Do you track your stats over time or you just rely on kind of what you know and how you are. You’ve been doing a lot longer than myself, but do have the journaling software or?
John Grady:
I don’t, but I do recommend it. And I don’t because I’ve been at this for so long. So for me, I know usually when I want to be involved. I know that mornings are better than afternoons. I typically avoid afternoons unless I think. I’m almost always avoiding afternoons and treasuries. Sometimes, the stock market moves in the afternoon. I know when I have done something stupid too or when I’ve been caught. Kind of I’m sitting there and I think it might be a little bit of a trap and I take the trade anyway and sure enough, it’s a trap and it immediately shoots against me. So I know these things, but newer traders don’t know this. And so I’m a big proponent of analytics, and it’ll really help new traders identify strengths and weaknesses because you can break it down, as you know, by time of day. Long, short even can matter because sometimes people find out that they’re a little too biased one way or the other. Like 80% of their trades are long trades, not on one day when there’s a one-way street, but over the course of two months and for whatever reason, maybe they don’t like going short or something. So yeah, I would recommend using it and paying attention to it so that you see where your strengths and weaknesses are and try to work on those weaknesses.
Canadian Futures Trader:
Yeah, and I double down on that. The one thing, and I’d mentioned it in the video the other day, is that it’s not just about tracking your stats and going, oh, those are nice. Because you have to do something with them. And that’s where yeah, I focused on things like, oh yeah, the mornings are much better. For myself, I was looking at like my average winner, my average loser, and I’m like, okay, let’s set some goals here. Let’s try to work on this average winning per tick and bump it up half a tick. Like that adds up over time. So also a big fan.
John Grady:
Absolutely. And also, because some people don’t realize, their average loser is bigger than their average winner, which that can’t be a thing. I mean, you can occasionally have something, you might get caught, but that’s unfortunately one of the initial hurdles to overcome if you’re using sort of a scalping method. I get people who just want to get in and scout their one tick because they feel good about making that money and, but then they’re losing three or four ticks when they’re on the wrong side. And so I try to explain that’s not going to work long term. Sometimes, it’s good. You can scalp back and forth one or two ticks pretty easily, like let’s say in a 10 year. But when you’re on the right side, you want to try to get paid and get more out of it. And particularly if you notice that you’re giving away three or four every time you’re wrong, then your average win has to be the same of whatever your average loss is and hopefully greater than that.
Canadian Futures Trader:
So we’ve already kind of covered, or you’ve put out several kind of things that new traders should heed, but the next question I actually had was, do you have any other, maybe beyond what we’ve talked about already or you just want to kind of repeat what you’ve said, but any tips? Like you have a brand-new trader in front of you, they want to be successful and they’re actually dedicated, they really want to make a lifelong career out of futures trading. What would you tell them? What sort of few quick hits would you tell them like this?
John Grady:
So if I can make a joke, I would tell them to go back to school and be a Doctor. That’s what I would tell them. Go be a doctor an engineer or
Canadian Futures Trader:
Just get an income.
John Grady:
Yeah, or even just contribute. This thing is not always cracked up to be the adage like it’s a hard way to make an easy living or it’s a tough way to make an easy living. So here’s what I would tell people and hopefully, somebody will find this useful. If you’re a person who has very few obligations, let’s say you’re not married, you don’t have any kids, your overhead’s minimal, you have low rent, although low rent, that’s an oxymoron these days. But anyway, your odds are much better because you’ll be able to sit there every morning and really try to learn what you’re doing. And I’m not saying other people can’t do this, but that’s a big benefit and so let’s say you’re not that person. Let’s say you’re married, you have some kids, you have a mortgage, you have car payments, but you want to get into futures trading, either you’re tired of your job or you lost it or whatever, that’s fine. But you have to understand that it’s a process, it’s a skillset. It’s going to take a little while to learn it, and it’s not going to provide you with money tomorrow. So the first thing as a new trader, that’s what you have to understand. It’s about the money. The money comes in waves if you’re successful. So you’re trying to build to a point where you’re capturing smaller movements, at least again, from a day trading scalping perspective, you’re trying to capture smaller movements on large size. So I’m not trying to get 20 ticks on a one lot, I’m trying to get three ticks on a 20 lot. So you don’t have to make that many ticks. So this is where a lot of new traders kind of mess up. It’s because they’re not making money, they have a one lot which you should start with a one lot, but they trade a one lot and they make six ticks and they’ve made a hundred dollars in a day. And they’re like, what do you do? You know, I made a hundred bucks. It’s not cutting it and this is why they often want to go for the bigger moves, but the bigger moves don’t come along very often. So instead of viewing it that way, they have to view it as the idea is to go from one to two to three to five to seven to ten contracts and up your size and maintain consistency. So that’s where the mind should be from the very, very beginning. On top of that, I would say read anything that has to do with higher frequency trading, artificial intelligence – AI, but the AI and the algo stuff, it’s not what people think it is. All the programs are doing is they’re trying to play poker really, really well. So it’s not that these things are so brilliant, it’s just that they learn how to manipulate or how to make moves because ultimately all you’re doing is buying and selling. So, for example, an AI is programmed to learn how long can it hold a price and shake out retail traders. So let’s say you buy and you’re looking for a move higher and the market won’t go, won’t go, won’t go. You scratch out for a break even, and 30 seconds after you scratch out, it goes higher. That is manipulation and it’s a very planned thing. So with the AI, what they do is they’re trying to figure out how long, and they can’t always do this because obviously they might run up against other firms that are moving volume. But if it’s not a very busy time period, and a firm is looking to buy and push the market higher, it wants to do that when it’s trapping people on the short side and there’s offers out there, and they also don’t want to pay the average guy. So if I’m long and a firm bids at higher, it means that they’re creating a situation where I’m going to get paid, and they don’t want that. So these programs are trying to figure out the best way to play this poker game. So rather than reading up on, like you said, the normal sales material that’s useless, read up on the poker game of trading, look at interviews with the old floor traders, read about high frequency trading, learn about the volume bids and offers and prints and transactions and volume profile and time and sales, and just understand that money moves the market and keep your focus on that. So the whole idea is you’re trying to anticipate when the next wave of orders is going to come in. And if most of them come in on one side, that’s what creates a trend. So as a brand-new person, it’s not usually what they think it is. You’re really playing more of a poker game than a video game. So stay focused on that and then just spend as much time as possible watching the depth of market every morning. And when you first start looking at the depth of market as a new trader, you’re going to feel completely lost, and you’re not going to understand how anybody can make heads or tails out of what they’re seeing. And you know this. But what I always tell people is it’s not as difficult as it seems and it does start to click with the brain. I would urge them to resist, or they should resist the urge to flip back to the charts or to get online or to check the email or whatever. If you’ll keep your charts off your screen, keep the news off your screen, don’t browse when things are slow and just keep watching those ladders, that’s how you start to get it. And even like Peter at Jigsaw, when years ago, he had a post where he said the first time he saw my screen, he didn’t understand how anybody could keep track of three or four depth of markets at the same time. But he said he tried it and he goes, sure enough, within just a couple weeks, he was starting to understand. It’s like, oh, okay, it’s not quite as hard as I thought it was. And then I don’t know how many he watches now, but he definitely watches more than one.
Canadian Futures Trader:
Fantastic information. No, all that stuff is very valuable, I think, for people to hear, and interesting as well. I mean, you said a few things I want to dig into a bit more. And you’re absolutely right about watching the depth of market and looking. People have no idea. At first, I had no idea. I still get comments on my videos. They’re like, I’ve watched you trade for six months and I still don’t understand what you’re doing with the depth of market, but seems to work. I’m like no, it’s not hard, it’s not hard. You’ve just got to invest the time. And I want to know what it is. So no, I’m a big proponent.
John Grady:
Also, just the basics, if I can quickly add. So a lot of people don’t understand the basics and that’s why I put out that YouTube order flow basics video. They don’t really understand what they’re seeing with a bid and an offer. They don’t understand the auction process. And it’s not complicated, it’s just someone’s buying, someone’s selling and they’re agreeing on a price, but the new people need to understand exactly what it is that they’re seeing on the ladder. And once they understand, oh, I get it, somebody’s bidding for 10 contracts, somebody’s offering 10 contracts, nothing’s happening. Oh, now someone was willing to sell 10 at the bid, and then that causes price to tick lower, right? Just that very basic understanding, many people don’t have. So that’s where it starts, and once you understand the dynamics of that, then you’re like, oh, okay, now I know what I’m looking at. Now I can start to figure out how to anticipate maybe direction.
Canadian Futures Trader:
I always try to tell people too not to keep hammering on people who don’t watch order flow, but yeah, you’re really looking almost like through a microscope at what’s actually happening at the transactional level. Whereas people looking at charts are just looking at, oh, the line’s going up, the line’s going down. It’s like, yeah, but what’s making go up and down? It’s the order flow. It’s the actual trades.
John Grady:
Right.
Canadian Futures Trader:
Yeah.
John Grady:
I tell people. I say you can see things in the order book that you can’t see in charts. But anything you see on a chart, you can see in the order book. Or even the volume profile, it helps to know if a hundred contracts are trading or if a thousand contracts are trading sometimes, then you can’t see that in the chart.
Canadian Futures Trader:
So, speaking of getting in the know, I wanted to talk a little bit about your website and your courses. So I first found you on YouTube and Peter Davies also dove into all Jigsaw stuff. But then I went through some of your courses. So on your site you have the beginner course, the advanced course, which people can buy, and they download that and watch it on their own and which was what I did. And then you also have live webinars. So my first question is it’s not like you’re doing them every week or anything like that. Do you have any sense when your next live webinar might be?
John Grady:
The next one will be either September or October. I’ve tried to schedule them at least twice a year, I always have them, and sometimes three times a year. During the summer, it can be difficult because people are on vacation. So sometimes I’ll try to do two early in the year and then one later in the year. The next one will be definitely in the Fall. Probably, first week of October is when it’ll start out. I always try to include a non-farm day, and that happens the first Friday of the month. So yeah, I run them for two weeks at a time. And then those come with this, but the structure of it, to plug it, so yeah, I have like a basic course you can download that just gives you a whole bunch of information. And it’s not basic. As you know, it’s not basic, basic like what is margin. It’s more what’s the basics of scalping method, order flow, looking at the depth of market, platforms that you use. And then what I tell people is if you go through that and you’re really gung-ho and you’re very intrigued, then that’s great. Like, it’ll tell you that. And then you can keep going to maybe the intermediate and a webinar. If you go through that and you say, you know what? I don’t think this is for me, it’s good because it’s only $85. And then it’s like, all right, you know a lot more than you knew now than you did know, and it’s probably not your thing, and that’s cool. So the webinars, there’s a lot of what I call primer videos, which basically you get access to a member site. And I have over 30 videos that explain all kinds of advanced information on trading. And then I kind of have people try to go through that before the live sessions. And then we start the live sessions and then for two weeks, I’ll trade live and just show people what I do. And obviously, hopefully the actions are good and I make some good calls and kind of demonstrate in real time that the concepts can work if they’re applied properly. And again, if the action’s good or the context is conducive. And that’s obviously a big selling point because people are like, all right, well show me. So if I log on and we’re sitting there and I’m like, oh, well there’s this particular setup and I take a trade and sure enough, treasury stops there, 10 year stops and goes in my direction, and then I go, all right, I think it’s done and I’m going to go the other way and then it does, it can look like magic at first, but it’s a good, at least, demonstration. And then you start to see why those reads can sometimes be made. And then also it’s good because they’re inevitably days where I just tell people straight up, this action is just not good. And this is the kind of day when I’m avoiding trading because I don’t want to give away money for no reason. So it helps people understand the day-to-day grind and it really helps people understand context. It’s like, oh, I get it now. Like why this day was better because there was better movement and this day was terrible because the markets barely moved or whatever.
Canadian Futures Trader:
I encourage people to check them out and like I said, I’ll put a link down below to John’s site. And for the YouTube video, you’ll actually be seeing his site now as we’re talking about it. But no, I highly recommend and yeah, I can relate not as much I do webinars or anything, but I often get requests to trade live. People just want as much trading video content, whatever as they can get, and I don’t like the livestream because I don’t know what I’m walking into. You might seriously see me sit there for an hour and do nothing. I’m not going to waste your time and that’s kind of how it is unfortunately. It’s not as exciting as NQ, but it’s more profitable. So that kind of ends my training related questions. John, I’ve done interviews with several people and I always like to end with six rapid fire questions. So I’ll just start the easy, I’ll throw them out and whatever your first thought is. Are you up for rapid fire questions?
John Grady:
Sure.
Canadian Futures Trader:
Okay, cool. First thing’s first. Nice, easy one. What’s your favorite color?
John Grady:
Black.
Canadian Futures Trader:
So if you could only trade one product, one product only for the rest of your life, what would it be?
John Grady:
Depends on the commissions. So these days, stocks being commission free, it probably would be stocks, ETFs, but futures, definitely treasuries all the way.
Canadian Futures Trader:
Okay, perfect. In a trade in general, would you rather be long or would you rather be short?
John Grady:
Don’t care. Whichever way the market’s going.
Canadian Futures Trader:
Nice. Have you ever yoloed a trade?
John Grady:
Ever yoloed a trade? You only live once trade?
Canadian Futures Trader:
Just went for it, said screw it, I’m mad at the market, I’m going long, and whatever happens, I’ll just deal with it.
John Grady:
Yeah, of course, everybody has done that a couple of times. I don’t do it very often, but I probably haven’t done that in a couple years, but yeah, I’ve done that for sure.
Canadian Futures Trader:
The second last question. Ideal number of monitors you’re looking at while you’re trading.
John Grady:
One
Canadian Futures Trader:
All right, focus. Good answer. So last question. If futures trading and let’s say stock trading as well, just trading in general wasn’t in your life, what do you think you would be doing with yourself for a job or in general?
John Grady:
Something travel-related. I like to travel, so yeah, I’d probably want to start some kind of a travel firm or I take people around and show them places and stuff like that. It was kind of my thing.
Canadian Futures Trader:
Nice. Yeah. Hey, teach people treasuries and teaching people travel related things, so it kind of actually makes sense. Cool. All right, well, that does end all of my questions. So once again, I want to really, really thank John for taking time out, he’s on vacation right now, taking out time off his schedule to talk with me and share all this awesome information. So again, John, thank you so much.
John Grady:
Sure, I appreciate you having me. Do it again sometime.
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Risk Disclosure:
Futures and forex trading contains substantial risk and is not for every investor. An investor could potentially lose all or more than the initial investment. Risk capital is money that can be lost without jeopardizing ones’ financial security or life style. Only risk capital should be used for trading and only those with sufficient risk capital should consider trading. Past performance is not necessarily indicative of future results.
Hypothetical Performance Disclosure:
Hypothetical performance results have many inherent limitations, some of which are described below. No representation is being made that any account will or is likely to achieve profits or losses similar to those shown; in fact, there are frequently sharp differences between hypothetical performance results and the actual results subsequently achieved by any particular trading program. One of the limitations of hypothetical performance results is that they are generally prepared with the benefit of hindsight.
In addition, hypothetical trading does not involve financial risk, and no hypothetical trading record can completely account for the impact of financial risk of actual trading. for example, the ability to withstand losses or to adhere to a particular trading program in spite of trading losses are material points which can also adversely affect actual trading results. There are numerous other factors related to the markets in general or to the implementation of any specific trading program which cannot be fully accounted for in the preparation of hypothetical performance results and all which can adversely affect trading results.
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